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Biblical America:
the social movement that seeks to use the Bible as the sole basis of all governance and social interaction.

a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

No white flags:
Individually or socially, never give in to, nor accomodate, this movement's extremist demands.

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Also from the creators of barf.org:

Acquire the Evidence - on Ron Luce and Teen Mania Ministries ("Battle Cry" Campaign)

The Answer is No - Answering Operation Save America in Columbus, Ohio - July 2004

Sabina's Diary at Daily Kos

Mike's Diary at Daily Kos

Articulations - wrapping words around that gut feeling (Mike and Sabina's Weblog)

BoardRoom/Soapbox Archive


The Christian willingness to override consent 2
By Lauren Sabina Kneisly

Time: Tue, 06-Apr-1999 23:33:13 GMT     

:I said I wouldn't add anything more to our
:discussion but I can't resist.

Proof positive that you're a conflict junkie.

:I believe that Christianity is right for me.

Congratulations. Should I care?

:I think that there are many paths to God and
:Christianity is just one of those paths.

Ah, yes, but are all paths equally valid? You just
accused me of 'black magic' up above. Apparently
you believe my religion is not a 'path to god'.

:Please, don't hold me responsible for the sins of
:others.  I have far to many sins of my own.

I'm holding you responsible for your own writings
from this boardroom. As far as your own self
described 'sins' they sound like a personal
problem to me.

:I don't believe that hating someone accomplishes
:anything constructive.

Is hate your favorite code word, Nick?

:I believe, what little I know about you, that you
:believe that we are a free-willed people.

Not sure who the 'we' you refer to is suppossed to
be. I believe people have free will and hold
responsiblity for thier actions.

:My disagreements with your view points do not
:prevent me from loving you and you not loving me
:doesn't effect that in the least.

Perhaps you assume that because I don't love you,
I must hate you.  WRONG. I'm utterly indifferent
to you; I don't know you.

:As for me trying to cram Christianity down
:anyone's throat, that is patently false.

I do not believe I said you were trying to cram
christianity down someone else's throat. I believe
I said you desired your moral standards be
enforced and imposed upon others. Whether those
values are christian or not is irrelevant to me.

:I pray for you just as I pray for everyone
:because I believe that God has obligated me to
:hold everyone dear.

Rapists want to hold their prey dear, too.

So your 'god's commands' are more important than
the consent of those you're talking about. Isn't
that what I've been saying? What you feel your
'god' has told you to do is more important to you
than the wishes of living breathing humans. You've
just made a value judgement that I consider
hazardous to everyone else. IF your 'god' tells
you to kill, do you do that too? At what point is
the living breathing human in front of you more
important than your 'god's commands'? Any point?

If you interpret your 'god's commands' as for
example 'do not allow a Witch to live,' (which is
actually 'do not allow a poisoner to live AMONGST
you,' not even kill the poisoner, just send them
out of your village) do you then 'not allow
Witches to live'?  Ever worry about your
interpretations? Where your 'god's commands, aside
from being radically misinterpreted for political
purposes, override the existence of others, and
are you willing to 'obey his commands' at those

:If that offends you, I am sorry. 

I'm not 'offended', I'm concerned about the
survival of those other than you and your
values. (Christian or otherwise.)

:I am not saying prayer that says "Christ, let's
:make Sabina come to God",

Many folk do. Many christians spent tons of time
in spiritual warfare trying to rid us normal folk
of 'spirits,' you know, like a 'spirit of

: I am saying a prayer that says, in essence
:"Christ, keep Sabina safe".

Quite frankly, you don't know me at all. I don't
go around casting spells for utter strangers, and
I find the entire practice disgusting. It is
exactly due to fixations like yours (and your
unwillingness to take no for an answer) that I
fell unsafe.

:I guess I think that if I demonstrate that
:Christianity is love you might respect me.

Do you understand that the way to gain my
'respect' is not to do things against my consent?
That is no way to gain my respect.

Christianity is quite frankly systemic stalking
behaviors from your 'witness'. If this is how you
define love, it no wonder you don't understand or
respect others.

Why should my respect, me a total stranger, even
matter to you?  How vain! Newsflash: I'm not here
to make you feel better.

:If you respect me you might consider what I am
:thinking and maybe, just maybe you will find what
:I think to have some merit.

Friendship evangelism? No thanks. I don't respect
you, I find you repulsive and dangerous. I have
considered 'what you are thinking' more than you
can imagine, I have a library full of such
drivel. I've rejected it out of hand. I'm not
interested. How many ways can I say 'No'? How many
times should I have to? I have an exceptionally
difficult time finding any merits out of your so
called religion, particularly as the witnesses for
it behave like you.

So the only reason you're here is so I'll see what
you see and change? How... christian. As I've been
saying: christianity is unable to accept other
religions/people as they are, and accept that even
should christianity be right for you, it is not
for me, end of discussion.


Nick: I want to be really clear. The reason many
of us non-christians are concerned about movements
like these and people like you is because of what
you've just stated above, other peoples' wants,
desires, etc, be damned, you want what you want,
and you're going to do it screw anyone else. You
want to obey your 'god's commands' even should
that lead to unhappiness, danger, or even death
for other people. Your interpretation of 'God's
will' takes precedence, perhaps even should it
preclude our existence.  That's what I have a
problem with. That's what's led to doctors being
shot, and queers being bashed, swastikas
spraypainted on jewish homes, and inquisitions.
You want the courts and the state to impose your
'morality' and you feel there are 'right' answers;
absolutes if you will, in terms of who should have
the ability to parent, and other such
decisions. That's not all right by many of
us. That's what our page is about. When you put
such ideology over the desires of those around
you, not only are you selfish, but I consider you
dangerous. If you were faced with 'god' saying
kill, and a person in front of you saying no, what
would you do? What would anyone with an ounce of
humanity left do?


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